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Saturday, December 10, 1994

Goering Quote

Nuremberg Diary
G.M. Gilbert


December 11


{p.66} LUNCH HOUR: ...{Goering said}...After the United States gobbled up California and half of Mexico, and we were stripped down to nothing, territorial expansion suddenly becomes a crime....



December 15-16


WEEK END IN JAIL

{P.72} Rosenberg's Cell: ...instead of having 90 per cent of the doctors in Berlin Jewish, reducing them to 30 per cent, or something like that—which would have been a liberal quota even then.—I had no idea that it would lead to such horrible things as mass murder.—We only wanted to solve the Jewish problem peacefully. We even let 50,000 Jewish intellectuals get across the border. Just as I wanted Lebensraum for Germany,
I thought the Jews should have Lebensraum for themselves—outside of Germany. There was no use trying to send them to Palestine, because it meant moving 800,000 Arabs out of the territory with the help of British bayonets.”



December 23


POWER POLITICS

{p. 84} Goering's Cell: Goering was in a philosophical mood and began to speculate...
{p. 85} ... “The inescapable fact is that England has to maintain its balance of power on the continent or else dominate it directly. She has only a population of 45,000,000 to dominate an empire of 500,000,000. She has to maintain her lifeline through the Mediterranean, and prevent any one power from getting strong enough to threaten it. I wanted to convince England that it was to her interest to let us become the dominating power on the continent...



December 25


AGGRESSION IN RETROSPECT

{p.91} Keitel's Cell: ...When we couldn't get across to England—which was impossible because we didn't have enough ships—he just had to do something. What else could he do? Take Gibralter? We wanted to, but Franco was afraid to risk it. Sit tight? Impossible.—That was all England needed to starve us out sooner or later. And all the time the life blood of our Wehrmacht came from the Rumanian oil fields. Remember that, professor. Oil! That was the vital key to the whole situation. Without oil we couldn't last a week.—And there was Russia; they could cut us off at any time. I think Hitler must have seen that we were actually in a desperate position. We were getting about 150,000 tons of oil a month from Rumania. We needed as absolute minimum of 300,000 to 350,000 tons a month to run a war. The 100,000 or so that we were getting from home production including synthetic was only a drop in the bucket. Why the Luftwaffe alone needed 100,000 a month. If we lost the Rumanian oil fields we were finished...



December 28


THE FÜHRERPRINZIP

{p.97} Rosenberg's Cell: Discussing the Führerprinzip,* he launched into another typical Rosenbergian piece of historical rationalization. The Führerprinzip had merely been abused, like many other great ideas of history. "The French Revolution was dedicated to the idea of brotherhood, but they ended in a blood bath in achieving it—and no one thinks of that now; the Catholic Church preached the doctrine of peace on earth, good will toward men, but look at the mass murders in the Inquisition; Luther wanted an enlightened Reformation, but look at the bloody 30 Years War with both Protestants and Catholics killing each other in the name of God. Would you hold Luther responsible for that war?...


*Führerprinzip, or “Leadership Principle,” according to which the leader's word was law and civilians as well as soldiers were responsible only to their immediate superiors and ultimately to the Führer, to whom the owed unquestioning obedience.


{p.98} ...That is where the Führerprinzip went awry, It was intended for perhaps 200,000 political leaders, not for a whole nation of 80,000,000....



January 3


EVENING IN JAIL

{p.103} Goering's Cell:...To think that Germans will be so rotten to prolong this filthy life—to put it bluntly—to piss in front and crap behind a little longer!—Herrgott, Donnerwetter!—Do you think I give that much of a damn about my lousy life?—” He faced me squarely with blazing eyes. “For myself, I don't give a damn if I get executed, or drown, or crash in a plane, or drink myself to death!—But there is still a matter of honor in this life!—Assassination attempt on Hitler!—Ugh!—Gott im Himmel!! I could have sunk through the floor! And do you think I would have handed Himmler over to the enemy, guilty as he was? Dammit, I would have liquidated the bastard myself!...



January 8


FROM “MEIN KAMPF” TO AUSCHWITZ

{p. 114} MORNING SESSION: Colonel Wheeler described some of the details of the persecution of the Christian religion and other religious sects; the killing of priests and ministers, the suppression of Church organizations, schools, and publications...

{p. 115} LUNCH HOUR: ...Rosenberg cut loose on the Russians and the Church. “The Russians have the nerve to sit in judgement—with 30 million lives on their conscience! Talk about persecution of the Church!—Why they are the world's greatest experts. They killed priests by the thousands in their revolution. They poured water on them and let them freeze—all kinds of things...

...I don't blame the Russians at all for trying
{p.116} to break the strangle hold of this clerical monster.—I have always been anti-Catholic.—But where do they get the nerve to sit in judgement on us as persecutors of the Church?


January 12-13


WEEK END IN JAIL

{p.121} Rosenberg's Cell: And what about that Open Door to China? Was it democracy to force a war on them so that England could corrupt 30 million Chinese with opium? Have you ever seen those opium dens? That is much worse than concentration camps. That is how millions of Chinese were spiritually murdered so that the Open Door for foreign trade could be maintained—and the various sects could keep sending missions. That is what I call racial prejudice with a vengeance!”

“But what about the democratic principle that people have to learn to live together and assimilate or live in mutual respect? New cultures always develop through the amalgamation of the old, and an artificial barrier to keep them separate is impossible in modern civilization.”

“Maybe it will work out that way in America; I doubt it. It is only natural for the members of a group to feel a common bond and protect themselves and their identity.”



4 The French Prosecution

January 17


OPENING ADDRESS

{p.123} MORNING SESSION: M. Francois de Menthon, chief French prosecutor, opened the French prosecution with an impassioned denunciation of the Nazi aggression which had wounded France's national pride as well as her human and material resources;

“France, who was systematically plundered...

{p. 124}...in the Nazi doctrine the nation is equivalent to the race.

[In the dock Frank appraised the speech with a pleased air: “Ah, that is stimulating! That is more like the European mentality. It will be a pleasure to argue with that man! But you know, it is ironic—it was the Frenchman, de Gobineau, who started racial ideology!”]



February 7


IDEOLOGY AND LOOT; HESS'S MISSION

{p. 132} MORNING SESSION: M. Mournier of the French delegation began to wind up the French prosecution with a summary of Rosenberg's role in the Nazi conspiracy. He attacked his “anti-scientific obscurantism which mixes the physiological traits of man with the concept of nations; the neo-paganism which aims to abolish what twenty centuries of Christianity have brought to the world in the way of moral rules of justice and of charity...”



15 The Russian Prosecution

February 8


OPENING ADDRESS

{p.136} MORNING SESSION: {General Rudenko:}...The valiant struggle of the peoples of democratic countries, led by the coalition of the three great powers—The Soviet Union, The United States of America, and Great Britain—resulted in the liberation of the European countries from the Hitlerite yoke. The victory of the Soviet and the Allied armies destroyed the criminal plans of Hitlerite conspirators and liberated the people of Europe...


LUNCH HOUR: (During the address Goering and Hess took off their headphones as a gesture that the address was not worth listening to.) When I asked Goering why he hadn't been listening, he said that he was amazed to hear them talking about Poland—he had caught that word when General Rudenko mentioned aggression against various countries. “I did not think that they would be so shameless as to mention Poland,” he said.

“What do you consider that shameless?” I asked.

“Because they attacked at the same time we did.—It was all a prearranged affair.”


...After lunch Goering started in again on the theme of how shameless it was of the Russians to mention the violation of human rights. “I wonder if they will have the nerve to mention that in their newspapers,” he said to Fritzsche.

“No, that is not the kind of stuff they like to print in Russian newspapers.”

Here von Shirach laughed, “Why when they mentioned Poland, I thought I'd die.”

...Goering retorted that all the atrocities the Russians were bringing up were Russian atrocities...

“You will have a hard time proving that the Russians murdered their own citizens to blame you for atrocities,” I said.

...Rosenberg came to Goering's support with: “Everything they say about Nazi atrocities you can say about the communists.”

Goering calmed down long enough to take another tack. “It's all right—as I've always said, the world is round, and it turns around, and some day the tables will be turned—”



February 12


THE ATTACK ON RUSSIA

{p. 149} Ribbentrop's Cell: This evening I visited Ribentrop in his cell in order to get some expression on the Russian aggression. I
{p.150} put the questions to him rather directly, after commenting that von Paulus had made a strong impression labeling the Russian campaign a “criminal attack” Ribbentrop hemmed and hawed, and finally came up with, “Well, maybe history will show that Hitler was right and I was wrong.”

“How do you mean?”

“I was always for rapprochement with Russia. Hitler thought we would be attacked sooner or later.—Maybe he was right.”



February 23-24


WEEK END IN JAIL

{p. 168} Ribbentrop's Cell: I entered Ribbentrop's cell and started the conversation with some offhand remark about how hard he was working on his defense.

“It is very difficult to prepare.—Very difficult, indeed.—You see they have even denied us the three-week recess we asked for.—It is very difficult.—There are so many documents—.”

“By the way, how did that Russian Non-Aggression Pact actually come about? Was it a sudden inspiration, or was it a longstanding policy to arrive ay an understanding with Russian, when you had the Anti-Comintern Pact.”

“Well, it was a comparatively sudden thing; it all happened within a couple of months. It was my idea, you know.—I always
{p. 169} approved of co-operation between Germany and Russia..” He passed over the inconsistency of these two statements. “You know, I was not an ideological fanatic like Rosenberg or Streicher or Goebbels.—I was an international businessman who merely wanted to have industrial problems solved, and national wealth properly preserved and used. If Communism could do it—all right; if National Socialism could do it—all right too.” His materialistic opportunism is thinly-veiled to say the least. He maintains a pose of social broadmindedness and statesmanship, but there is hypocrisy implicit in virtually every sentence. “It is these social problems and industrial crisis which bring about wars—it wasn't merely a quarrel over Danzig [cf. Feb. 12]....

“...why couldn't you at least keep your Non-Aggression Pact with Russia? It seems to me that was your fatal blunder, aside from the moral issue.”

“Oh, I was in favor of keeping the peace with Russia all the time. After all, the pact had my signature on it.—Yes, I was strongly in favor of peace with Russia—right up to March, 1941. I felt we could do business with Russia... “

“If that was so, why did you attack them?” We've been on
{p. 170} this merry-go-round once before, but I was giving it another fling.

“Well, the war guilt does not lie entirely on one side.—I believe that Hitler feared just what has, after all, actually taken place.”



March 6


CHURCHILL'S SPEECH

{p. 183} LUNCH HOUR: If Goering needed a change of subject to occupy their attention, it was supplied by today's headline, “UNITE TO STOP RUSSIANS, CHURCHILL WARNS AT FULTON.” {Chuchill's famous ‘Iron Curtain’ Speech in which Churchill informed the populations of the High Contracting Powers which authored the North Atlantic Charter that the Allied relationship with the USSR had reached an impasse. Churchill had earlier been voted out of office by the British electorate.}

“Naturally, I told you so,” Goering said as he went up to lunch. “It has always been that way. You will see—I was right.—It is the old balance of power again.” He continued when I dropped in on him at lunch. “That is what they get for trying to balance us off against the East. They could never make up their minds whether to balance us off against the East or West. Now Russia is too strong for them, and they've got to counterbalance her again.' I asked him whether he thought England had made the Munich Pact as an invitation to expand eastward toward Russia and Czechoslovakia. “Why, naturally,” he said, as if it was the most obvious thing in the world. “But then they got afraid that Germany would be too strong. Now they've got Russia to worry about.” He seemed to fell that it served Churchill right for not allowing Germany to expand eastward without hindrance from England.

In the Elders lunchroom, von Papen read the headline, then said “Donnerwetter, nochmal, he is outspoken, isn't he?”

The others gathered around and von Papen began to read the article aloud. “There!” declared Doenitz with some satisfaction, “—now he is going back to his old line.”

“Naturally, he welcomed Russia's help when he needed it,” von Neurath observed, “but it is still the British Empire first and
{p. 184} last. He shouldn't have conceded so much to the Russians at Teheran and Casablanca.”

“Yalta! Yalta!” Doenitz corrected. “That was the time. He didn't have to give in so much to the Russians when it was obvious that Germany was going to lose the war anyway. Now they've got the Russians in Thüringen.—That is what I wrote Eisenhower when I was still alive.—If they wanted to have a pro-Russian policy, all right—but if they did not want such a policy, they would have to make certain changes.”

“Of course, it is only words now,” von Papen observed. “Probably just a warning.”

“Yes,” Schacht suggested, after listening to the argument, “I suppose that the British Labor Party cannot very well say those things, so they tell Churchill to say it.” The others thought that was probably the explanation, hinting that regardless of party, the empire must be preserved, and the Labor Party merely wanted Russia warned not to force a showdown over British policies in the East.



March 16-17


WEEK END IN JAIL

{p. 202} Goering's Cell: Goering was very tired from the strain of the past three days' testimony. His defense being almost completed, he was already moodily brooding over his destiny and speculating on his role in history. Humanitarianism had become a thorn in his side, and he cynically rejected it as a threat to his future greatness. The empire of Genghis Khan, the Roman Empire, and the British Empire were not built with due regard for principles of humanity, he expostulated with weary bitterness—but they achieved greatness in their time and have won a respected place in history. I reiterated that the world was becoming a little too sophisticated in the 20th century to regard war an murder as the signs of greatness. He squirmed and scoffed and rejected the idea as the sentimental idealism of an American who could afford such a self-delusion after America had hacked its way to a rich Lebensraum by revolution, massacre, and war...



March 22


{p. 209}“That guy Rudenko was more nervous than I was, that's a sure thing. Hoho! but he pulled a boner when I slipped in that one about the Russians transporting 1,680,000Poles and Ukrainians to Russia. Instead of saying, 'We are not interested in your accusations,' he said, 'You do not have to bring up Soviet actions.'—I bet he gets a hot wire from old Joe on that one! Hw sure fell into it!—I also gave him a good dig when he asked me why I didn't refuse to obey Hitler's orders. I answered 'Then I certainly would not have to worry about my health.' That's the technical terminology for liquidation in a dictatorship. He understood me, all right.”...
{p.210} He then launched into a tirade on the homosexuality of the Catholic clergy, to show that his anti-Catholicism had some basis. “Did you ever see one of their seminaries? There are 14, 15, 16, and 17-year-olds from all over the world, and you can see at 10 paces that they are selected pederasts. It stands to reason. You cannot go against human nature. When we arrested their priests because of homosexuality, they hollered that we were persecuting the Church.—Some persecution! We had to pay them close to a billion marks a year in taxes anyway.—But the Catholic clergy—don't you think I know what goes on behind drawn curtains in those confessions, or between the priests and the nuns. The nuns are 'brides of Christ' you know.—What a setup!”



April 6-7


WEEK END IN JAIL

{p. 246} Jodl's Cell: Jodl recalled that he was also furious over the killing of the English fliers.”—A sheer willful, utterly unjustified crime!—I knew that was one thing we could never justify.—From then on I knew what kind of man Hitler was.—I bucked him at every turn on such matters, because I knew that Keitel was no man to stand up against him. But the order to kill the escaped British fliers—there was absolutely no justification for that—just the sheer, arbitrary, wilful fury of Hitler against Keitel for not preventing prisoners from escaping. I knew that that was something we could never explain. In fact, when the British called for Keitel after the Armistice, i told him it was on account of that affair.”

“The killing of the 50 escaped prisoners and the assassination
{p. 247} plot against Giraud seem to disturb the military men more than the whole murder program that exterminated millions of Jews and other ideological opponents.” I commented.

“Yes, of course—that concerns our honor vitally. We had nothing to do with the other thing. It will be shown conclusively that we had nothing to do with that.”

He went on to explain how Hitler had disrupted the entire basis of the officers' code of honor and fair play in war which had been handed down through the centuries. Hitler brought with him a new radical capricious will which did not fit into their world—the world of von Hindenburg, von Neurath, etc. Even Goering understood the old officers' code and frequently had his way with the Führer on such matters.



April 9


{p. 251} LUNCH HOUR: Goering had said he wanted to know how it was technically possible to murder 2½ million Jews. I explained it to him during the lunch hour, just as Hoess explained to me this morning: each of the gas chambers could accommodate up to 1500 or 2000 persons; the killing was easy but burning of bodies took all the time and manpower. Goering felt extremely uncomfortable at the realization that it was no longer possible to deny the extent of the mass murders on the basis of the technical incredibility of the numbers. He wanted to know just how the order was given. I told him that Himmler had given it to him directly as a Führerbefehl (order from the Führer).

“He is just another German being loyal to the Führer,” I commented.

“Oh, but that has nothing to do with loyalty—he could just as easily have asked for some other job—or something,” Goering
{p.252} speculated. “Of course, somebody else would have done it anyway.”

“What about killing the man who ordered the mass murder?” I asked.

“Oh, that is easily said, but you cannot do that sort of thing. What kind of a system would that be if anybody could kill the commanding officer if he didn't like his orders? You have got to have obedience in a military system.”

If I am not mistaken, millions of Germans are sick of this obedience and blind loyalty among their leaders. I think they would have preferred a little less loyalty to the permanent shame that loyalty to the Führer had brought them. There ios an article on the trials in yesterday's Nürnberger Nachrichten with the headline Blind Obedience without Conscience.' You ought to read it and see what the people think of your blind obedience, and Ribbentrops's and Keitel's.”

Ach, what the American-controlled newspapers print now does not mean a damn.”

He nevertheless seemed disturbed over the idea that this was what the German people were reading and agreeing with nowadays.



April 27-28


WEEK END IN JAIL

{p. 304} Ribbentrop's Cell: ...Ribbentrop said he was still having speech difficulty but talked a blue streak, repeating many of his previous arguments and rationalizations...his assertion that America had used its army to suppress opposition by force 150 times in the past 150 years. He did not say where he had gotten this information....



15 Schacht's Defense

April 30


SCHACHT TAKES THE STAND

{p.307} MORNING SESSION: ...Schacht maintained that he was justified in objecting to the Versailles Treaty, since even America refused to ratify the treaty as a betrayal of Wilson's 14 Points.



May 16


RAEDER'S TESTIMONY

{p. 335} MORNING SESSION: Raeder testified that Hitler did not want to compete with England in naval rearmament, and therefore made the Naval Pact of 1935 which preserved a 3-to-1 ration of the British and German naval tonnage. That was a breach of the Versailles Treaty on both sides, of course...



May 20


RAEDER'S MILITARY CODE

EVENING IN JAIL

{p. 340} Raeder's Cell:...the game of playing the East against the West continues behind the scenes, with the admirals
{p. 341} already choosing up sides for the next war, before the peace treaty has even been signed for this one {nobs Ed. No treaty was ever signed officially ending World War II; despite Soviet participation in the United Nations Charter, the United States never formally recognized Soviet claims to the Baltic States as arranged in the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact; the Oder-Neise Line was not formally recognized by the BRD or the Federal Republic of Germany as the Polish border with the DDR or East Germany until the 1970's; the Helsinki Accords of 1976 are the closest thing to what may be called a 'treaty' ending World War II, although the Cold War, meaning the absence of a 'Hot' or shooting war continued uninterrupted after the 1945 Tribunal).

...I have no illusions about this trial.—Naturally, I will be hanged of shot.—I flatter myself to think that I will be shot...



May 22


THE ADMIRALS

{p. 345} LUNCH HOUR: AT lunch Doenitz was tickled over the statement he had just gotten from Admiral Nimitz in answer to his questionnaire. “Do you know what he said? He conducted unrestricted warfare in the whole of the Pacific Ocean from the first day after Pearl harbor!—It is a wonderful document!”

In the next vom Ribbentrop and Raeder were also taking great comfort from the document, which Doenitz had shown them. “You see,” said Raeder, “unrestricted warfare!—anything is permitted as long as you win! the only thing you mustn’t do is lose!”

Ribbentrop sought to use this even to justify the breaking of the Munich Pact. “There you are—unrestricted warfare in the whole Pacific Ocean, where America really doesn't belong! And when we make a Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, which belonged to Germany for a thousand years, it is considered aggression!”

EVENING IN JAIL

{p. 346}...Raeder is just a jealous old man who is sore because I accomplished more than he did, and finally I became Chief of State, although I was once his subordinate.—That part about my ordering the troops to fight on to the end—I've already explained it to you.—It was only to save two million Germans from falling into Russian hands, and for that I had the support of General Eisenhower and General Montgomery.—



June 5


“STRATEGIC NECESSITY” AND WAR GUILT

{p.366} Jodl continued to testify how Hitler had started talking to him about the possible hostilities with Russia in July, 1940, and had asked if they should not get ready to forestall an attack by Russia in the fall. Hitler ordered him to improve campaign conditions in the East. Two divisions were sent to Poland for readiness “to protect the Rumanian oil fields.” Hitler was convinced that Russia would squeeze or attack them in the near future, and England would encourage it. Incidents at the demarcation line in Poland increased. There were reports of increasing strength of Russian troops near the border...

June 6



{p.369} AFTERNOON SESSION: ...cross-examination of Jodl...”If it is proven that Russia had no intention of attacking us.”



Appendix I—The judgment

{p.444} SCHACHT: “...Tribunal...comes to the conclusion that this necessary inference has not been established beyond a reasonable doubt.”

Verdict: NOT GUILTY.

DOENITZ: “...evidence does not show he was privy to the conspiracy to wage aggressive wars or that he prepared and initiated such wars...The Tribunal is of the opinion that the evidence does not establish with the certainty required that Doenitz deliberately ordered the killing of shipwrecked survivors...

Sentence: 10 years imprisonment.

RAEDER: “...The conception of the invasion of Norway first arose in the mind of Raeder and not that of Hitler...Rader endeavored to dissuade Hitler from embarking upon the invasion of the USSR...
Verdict: GUILTY on counts 1, 2, and 3.
Sentence: Life imprisonment.

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